1 00:00:16,030 --> 00:00:16,302 Tonight 2 00:00:17,028 --> 00:00:18,960 the time before time begins 3 00:00:19,489 --> 00:00:21,429 The universe, Black Holes 4 00:00:22,024 --> 00:00:23,885 God and the laws of Science 5 00:00:24,291 --> 00:00:26,571 Profº Stephen Hawking 6 00:00:26,964 --> 00:00:28,537 Doctor Carl Sagan 7 00:00:28,865 --> 00:00:30,447 and Arthur C. Clarke 8 00:00:30,837 --> 00:00:35,865 discuss the mysteries men faces as he starts to explore the stars 9 00:01:07,990 --> 00:01:12,103 Degenerative disabilities prevents Stephen Hawking from speaking a word 10 00:01:12,519 --> 00:01:16,174 But he reason above them to become a brilliant mathematician and teacher 11 00:01:16,767 --> 00:01:18,990 using a computer driven voice synthesizer 12 00:01:19,382 --> 00:01:21,978 He's told the world how the universe began 13 00:01:22,367 --> 00:01:26,289 and now he is seeking the ultimate theory of how it works 14 00:01:27,396 --> 00:01:35,064 Arthur C. Clarke invented the communication satellite long before the technology exist to launch one 15 00:01:35,099 --> 00:01:38,521 That vision of the future father the global village 16 00:01:39,135 --> 00:01:42,987 his novels and stories including 2001 Space Odyssey 17 00:01:43,022 --> 00:01:46,840 have inspired generations of real life astronauts 18 00:01:48,787 --> 00:01:54,615 Carl Sagan sent man's first messages to the stars aboard Nasa's space probes 19 00:01:54,977 --> 00:01:57,789 his sure will not be alone in the cosmic widerness 20 00:01:58,817 --> 00:02:02,943 Doctor Sagan join our discussion from Cornell University in NY State 21 00:02:03,354 --> 00:02:07,158 So I check whether he could hear us over one of Arthur satellites 22 00:02:07,193 --> 00:02:10,728 Yes. Communication satellite technology is working very well, Thank You 23 00:02:11,580 --> 00:02:12,611 Arthur can you hear all right? 24 00:02:12,828 --> 00:02:13,702 I can hear fine 25 00:02:14,301 --> 00:02:17,938 And professor Hawking are you in touch with Carl Sagan? 26 00:02:17,973 --> 00:02:18,819 Yes 27 00:02:19,630 --> 00:02:22,523 Profº Hawking in fact has just made publishing history 28 00:02:22,952 --> 00:02:27,373 by writing a book about hard theorical science which has outsold 29 00:02:27,646 --> 00:02:30,682 even Michael Jackson in the bestsellers lists 30 00:02:31,025 --> 00:02:33,396 It is called a Brief History of Time 31 00:02:33,740 --> 00:02:36,333 and we will be talking about the concepts that are in it 32 00:02:37,032 --> 00:02:41,527 Now Stephen Hawking has engaged in a search for the ultimate answer 33 00:02:41,959 --> 00:02:46,301 a grand, unified theory that will explain everything 34 00:02:47,554 --> 00:02:51,646 Stephen Hawking that is quite an agenda. How are getting on with it? 35 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:58,227 Let me just explain that what happens when Profº Hawking wishes to speak 36 00:02:58,726 --> 00:03:03,167 He lost his voice a couple of years ago. And now has to use a voice synthesizer 37 00:03:03,870 --> 00:03:07,393 And he can control a squeeze box in his hand 38 00:03:08,051 --> 00:03:13,198 And on the video screen on his chair he's got a vocabulary 39 00:03:13,581 --> 00:03:16,956 which scrolls trough and he can pick out a word that he wants 40 00:03:17,449 --> 00:03:21,010 and these words are then assembled into a sentence 41 00:03:21,393 --> 00:03:26,955 and when the sentences are ready he can passes it trough the voice synthesizer 42 00:03:27,207 --> 00:03:30,740 so whenever you are ready profº Hawking we would like to hear from you 43 00:03:34,121 --> 00:03:34,494 In the last 300 years we have discovered the laws and covered the universe 44 00:03:39,342 --> 00:03:41,346 in all by the most extreme conditions 45 00:03:45,433 --> 00:03:50,557 I think there is a reasonable chance that we may find the complete set of laws 46 00:03:51,055 --> 00:03:55,086 by the end of the century if we don't blow ourselves at first 47 00:03:57,715 --> 00:04:04,053 If we do find a complete unified theory will be a great triumph not only for scientist 48 00:04:04,467 --> 00:04:07,320 but for ordinary people as well 49 00:04:07,916 --> 00:04:14,588 In time, the unified theory will be simplified and taught in schools at least in outline 50 00:04:16,255 --> 00:04:19,443 Then everyone will have some idea of how the universe works 51 00:04:21,007 --> 00:04:23,289 Well that is a tremendous vision 52 00:04:23,817 --> 00:04:26,803 Now Carl Sagan you wrote an introduction to the book 53 00:04:27,165 --> 00:04:29,663 And of the striking things that you said is that 54 00:04:29,698 --> 00:04:32,925 Is only children now a days who ask the big questions 55 00:04:33,221 --> 00:04:35,953 because they don't know enough 56 00:04:35,988 --> 00:04:41,397 What I was trying to get across was the notion that the school system 57 00:04:41,853 --> 00:04:48,894 It seems to me that they have an attitude of discouragement 58 00:04:49,188 --> 00:04:50,989 Of asking fundamental questions 59 00:04:51,455 --> 00:04:57,332 If a 5-6 year old asks why the moon is round or why the grass is green 60 00:04:57,831 --> 00:05:02,641 The usual adult answer, at least in my experience, is to discourage the child 61 00:05:02,958 --> 00:05:06,301 Say "what shape did you expect the moon to be? A square?" 62 00:05:06,539 --> 00:05:09,226 "What color did you expect the grass to be? Blue?" 63 00:05:09,479 --> 00:05:14,040 Instead of saying: Those are interesting questions let’s try to find out the answers 64 00:05:14,412 --> 00:05:16,207 Or "Maybe nobody knows the answer 65 00:05:16,411 --> 00:05:19,641 and when you grow up you will be able to discover the answer 66 00:05:20,039 --> 00:05:22,329 It will be very healthy for the human species 67 00:05:22,659 --> 00:05:26,174 if there were less discouragement and more scientists 68 00:05:26,677 --> 00:05:28,201 Arthur Clarke? 69 00:05:28,236 --> 00:05:31,537 I wonder about science which is because it does free the imagination 70 00:05:32,536 --> 00:05:34,845 and it does inspire people to become scientists 71 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,111 and astronauts 72 00:05:36,786 --> 00:05:41,864 maybe for the very old man by coming up and say to me 73 00:05:41,899 --> 00:05:42,130 You know your book turn me into a small boy 74 00:05:43,006 --> 00:05:47,988 Excellent. Now I've planned a reasonably finite structure for our little colloquium 75 00:05:50,008 --> 00:05:52,123 And I’d like to start it, if I may, with Profº Hawking 76 00:05:52,672 --> 00:05:55,161 How did the universe start? With a Big bang? 77 00:05:58,091 --> 00:06:01,729 We observe that the distant galaxies are moving away from us 78 00:06:03,486 --> 00:06:07,624 This means that they must have blow themselves together in the past 79 00:06:09,163 --> 00:06:15,824 In fact, one can show that all the galaxies must have been on top of each other 80 00:06:15,859 --> 00:06:18,813 about 15 billion of years ago 81 00:06:22,333 --> 00:06:26,833 this was real big bang not the puny things that took place 82 00:06:28,624 --> 00:06:28,728 on the stock exchange a couple of years ago 83 00:06:31,107 --> 00:06:34,761 It was the beginning of the universe and of time itself 84 00:06:37,152 --> 00:06:39,704 Anything that happened before the big bang 85 00:06:39,974 --> 00:06:41,940 could not affect what happened after 86 00:06:43,455 --> 00:06:46,407 so we can neglect the events before the big bang 87 00:06:46,442 --> 00:06:49,347 and say that the time began at the big bang 88 00:06:52,586 --> 00:06:59,296 After the Big Bang we believe that the universe expanded in a very rapidly inflationary manner 89 00:07:00,881 --> 00:07:06,622 Again this inflation in the universe quite puts modern economic inflation in the shade 90 00:07:08,962 --> 00:07:14,053 An increase of billion of billions of percent in a tiny fraction of the second 91 00:07:15,493 --> 00:07:19,065 Of course, that was before the present government 92 00:07:24,859 --> 00:07:31,076 During the inflationary period the universe borrowed heavily formed from its gravitational energy 93 00:07:31,111 --> 00:07:33,692 To finance the creation of more matter 94 00:07:34,780 --> 00:07:37,843 The results was a triumph for the Reagan economics: 95 00:07:38,959 --> 00:07:42,981 A vigorous in the expanding universe filled with material objects 96 00:07:44,175 --> 00:07:50,019 The debt of gravitational energy will not have to be repaid until the end of the universe 97 00:07:51,143 --> 00:07:56,019 I'd like to stay with this basic proposition for time beginning: The big Bang Theory 98 00:07:56,427 --> 00:07:59,481 And then I come to you Carl Sagan could you help me 99 00:07:59,706 --> 00:08:04,205 by putting it into layman terms what was involved with this Big Bang? 100 00:08:04,699 --> 00:08:13,639 Well,... we... here we are in a planet, which is about five thousand million of years old 101 00:08:15,097 --> 00:08:17,668 The sun around it goes is not much older 102 00:08:18,312 --> 00:08:26,158 It is part of a galaxy which is a perhaps 10-12 thousand of million years old 103 00:08:26,686 --> 00:08:32,154 Which is one of perhaps hundreds of thousands of millions of other galaxies 104 00:08:33,113 --> 00:08:40,175 And none of these planets, suns and galaxies was around at the time of Big Bang 105 00:08:40,832 --> 00:08:46,145 At the time of Big bang there was energy, elementary particles 106 00:08:46,750 --> 00:08:51,120 which slowly evolved into the kind of universe we know it today 107 00:08:51,155 --> 00:08:56,811 We are the product of the grand evolutionary sequence cosmic evolution 108 00:08:57,419 --> 00:09:04,062 about which we are only occasionally aware of one of the great accomplishments of Dr. Hawking 109 00:09:04,097 --> 00:09:10,536 Is to plug us better in to the knowledge of this long evolutionary sequence 110 00:09:11,347 --> 00:09:17,816 What I have in my mind is a picture that Carl Sagan had been lead me towards to 111 00:09:18,190 --> 00:09:25,191 Of the whole universe in quite amazingly small packages. Like putting the whole world into a matchbox 112 00:09:25,226 --> 00:09:33,064 Immensely dense Immensely tiny. In fact sometimes it is kind of disappearing into a little point 113 00:09:33,717 --> 00:09:42,068 Is this the earliest imaginable point that our minds are taking us to so far Carl Sagan? 114 00:09:42,103 --> 00:09:50,419 Well, we..as Dr. Hawking said: The Galaxies are expanding, running away from each other 115 00:09:50,828 --> 00:09:54,965 The further away they are from each other the faster they are running away 116 00:09:55,490 --> 00:10:02,326 If you run the cosmic movie back into time you will come to a moment, perhaps 15-10 thousands of millions of years ago 117 00:10:02,868 --> 00:10:08,119 In which all the matter in the universe was touching in, if you like, a point 118 00:10:08,890 --> 00:10:15,387 And the key, unanswered and perhaps unanswerable question is: 119 00:10:15,762 --> 00:10:19,401 Where did all that matter energy come from? 120 00:10:19,436 --> 00:10:20,722 What was before that? 121 00:10:21,422 --> 00:10:25,148 And if it was made from nothing: Who made it? 122 00:10:26,374 --> 00:10:28,395 And who made the maker? 123 00:10:29,107 --> 00:10:31,984 And of course an infinite regress behind that 124 00:10:32,322 --> 00:10:39,215 Is the universe still expanding fast? I mean, It is a lot of more room in space, as i think? 125 00:10:39,810 --> 00:10:41,968 for the universe to carry on and getting bigger? 126 00:10:42,437 --> 00:10:48,882 As far as I know: Nothing in the way, and the expansion continues. The question is: 127 00:10:49,711 --> 00:10:55,653 Whether there is sufficient matter in the universe? Matter that we have not yet counted? 128 00:10:56,344 --> 00:11:03,434 That will slow the expansion down and stop it and have the expanding universe followed by a collapsing universe 129 00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:10,531 Or whether there is not enough matter to stop the expansion and so the expansion will continue forever 130 00:11:10,781 --> 00:11:15,454 This is an observational question which is still unresolved 131 00:11:16,123 --> 00:11:23,828 and the Hubble space telescope...Who knows? Might be launched next year if we are lucky 132 00:11:24,323 --> 00:11:26,710 Might answer this question... 133 00:11:27,209 --> 00:11:32,681 Profº Hawking uses a very striking proposition of the earth borrowing this energy from itself 134 00:11:33,138 --> 00:11:34,701 Now in striking banking terms, 135 00:11:35,262 --> 00:11:40,101 Let me do the overdrawn now in the end there is going to be a collapse a big Crunch 136 00:11:40,626 --> 00:11:45,726 So does Big Bang get followed inevitably by Big Crunch? 137 00:11:46,264 --> 00:11:51,202 No, not inevitably. It depends on how much matter there is on the universe 138 00:11:51,977 --> 00:11:59,446 Which is still an unsolved issue. I should say that the prevailing opinion is that 139 00:11:59,841 --> 00:12:09,291 the universe will continue expanding forever, but in my opinion is by no means a very secure conclusion 140 00:12:09,326 --> 00:12:12,060 Now let bring in the poet of my side here. 141 00:12:12,419 --> 00:12:17,083 Arthur Clarke, you know what T.S. ELLIOT says " This is the way the world ends, not with a Bang but a whimper" 142 00:12:17,382 --> 00:12:20,489 When you think of the end of the world, if you think of the end of the world 143 00:12:21,152 --> 00:12:22,728 Does it ends with a bang or a whimper? 144 00:12:23,332 --> 00:12:25,350 Coming along, we like to think it will end with a Bang 145 00:12:26,411 --> 00:12:29,427 Of course we will never know, this is a long road way in the future 146 00:12:29,981 --> 00:12:36,198 Some...billions.. tens of billions... possibly much far in the future 147 00:12:36,728 --> 00:12:41,486 As Carl said, we may have the answers to these questions in a very few years 148 00:12:41,927 --> 00:12:47,362 If the Hubble Space telescope gets successfully into orbit and focus to the boundaries of the universe 149 00:12:48,034 --> 00:12:50,910 If we are as living in a little suburb of the galaxy 150 00:12:51,610 --> 00:12:55,747 Can you force a time when we will need to get out of the suburb and colonize somewhere else? 151 00:12:56,090 --> 00:12:59,933 Because of the gradual curve towards the end? 152 00:13:00,464 --> 00:13:04,467 Well, I think the human race.. If it survives the next few years will go on to colonize 153 00:13:05,808 --> 00:13:09,883 First the solar system.. and then will send ships out to the stars 154 00:13:10,738 --> 00:13:13,234 And ultimately perhaps throughout the galaxies 155 00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:18,472 But if the expansion of the universe is fast enough, we will never be able to keep up with it 156 00:13:18,507 --> 00:13:23,676 Now, one of the fastidid aspect that is raised is the question of time itself in the book 157 00:13:24,189 --> 00:13:29,551 Now.. we all think.. we know what time is. It is a lentlessmarch forward 158 00:13:30,118 --> 00:13:38,649 But for the purposes of you arguments Stephen Hawking you use a mathematical concept you called "Imaginary Time" 159 00:13:38,905 --> 00:13:43,011 Which seems to be able to run backwards as well as forwards? 160 00:13:46,996 --> 00:13:49,922 In our theories there are two types of time 161 00:13:51,993 --> 00:14:00,098 There is what is called real time. 162 00:14:00,133 --> 00:14:00,147 This is the kind of time that is measured by a clock 163 00:14:02,729 --> 00:14:07,961 The time that we feel passing, the time that we grow older 164 00:14:09,929 --> 00:14:12,073 Then there is imaginary time 165 00:14:14,250 --> 00:14:21,258 Of course imaginary time is an idea that science fiction writers, like Arthur, have used in their stories 166 00:14:22,980 --> 00:14:28,495 But imaginary time is also a well defined mathematical concept 167 00:14:30,855 --> 00:14:34,087 it can be thought as a direction of time 168 00:14:34,497 --> 00:14:39,016 that is at right angles to ordinary, real time, in certain sense. 169 00:14:40,714 --> 00:14:44,797 The universe has a beginning in real time at the Big Bang 170 00:14:46,650 --> 00:14:50,734 And it may well have an end, if it collapses to a Big Crunch 171 00:14:53,082 --> 00:14:56,396 But in imaginary time it has no beginning or end 172 00:14:58,331 --> 00:15:03,519 Rather, imaginary time is closed on itself like the surface of the earth 173 00:15:05,067 --> 00:15:09,260 The surface of the earth doesn't have any beginning or end 174 00:15:11,489 --> 00:15:16,316 I know because I’ve been around the world and I didn't fall off 175 00:15:20,391 --> 00:15:27,467 Individual Particles can travel trough imaginary time and gets back in a nearlier real time 176 00:15:29,689 --> 00:15:36,907 But I don't believe that people will ever be able to travel back in time like in the film "Back to the Future" 177 00:15:37,504 --> 00:15:44,227 I'm gonna come first, if I may, to you Carl Sagan, because this idea in Profº Hawking's book 178 00:15:44,854 --> 00:15:53,998 that there is 4 extra dimensionals model of the universe. With no boundaries... but finite.. just like the earth 179 00:15:54,482 --> 00:16:00,758 This to me is really stretching my own capacity for imagination to the upmost 180 00:16:01,106 --> 00:16:04,845 How do you turn it into words for me a layman? 181 00:16:05,337 --> 00:16:14,867 Well.. the first thing i would say is not to feel bad... if it's not immediately intuitively obvious 182 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:21,367 Our ability to understand things instantly, so called "Common Sense" 183 00:16:21,854 --> 00:16:28,036 Derives for a some certain range of size, and speed, and duration 184 00:16:28,772 --> 00:16:31,348 That are appropriate for human existence 185 00:16:31,661 --> 00:16:36,146 We know about thing from the tenth of millimeter to a few kilometers 186 00:16:36,655 --> 00:16:41,737 From a fraction of a second to a lifetime... and so on.. 187 00:16:42,295 --> 00:16:46,231 So when we are dealing with matters of quantum physics.. 188 00:16:46,818 --> 00:16:53,704 we have particles of a size of ten to the minus of thirteenth centimeters 189 00:16:53,739 --> 00:17:00,590 Or in cosmology... we are talking about of ten billion light years or more 190 00:17:01,403 --> 00:17:06,406 It is very reasonable that our intuition is not adaqueted to the task 191 00:17:06,950 --> 00:17:10,838 One point I would like to make about this is that every human culture 192 00:17:11,266 --> 00:17:13,773 has a set of creation myths 193 00:17:14,670 --> 00:17:21,556 But they are in the realm of mythology or religion or folklore 194 00:17:21,591 --> 00:17:25,221 And of course they are all coherent and consistent 195 00:17:26,611 --> 00:17:32,276 The great thing that is happening in our time is that we are able to a 196 00:17:33,158 --> 00:17:39,113 method which can actually make some progress towards the real universe out there 197 00:17:39,725 --> 00:17:45,859 To find out something about our origins and this is the scientific method applied to the science of cosmology 198 00:17:46,353 --> 00:17:50,697 So I know that is not a direct answer to your question but I thought it was more important 199 00:17:50,989 --> 00:17:58,366 to address the issue of feeling unhappy because is wasn't immediately understandable 200 00:17:58,401 --> 00:18:00,898 Yes, I find that extremely soothing actually 201 00:18:01,271 --> 00:18:05,895 because it is the kind of unformidable task of grasping this 202 00:18:06,147 --> 00:18:09,442 that makes me want to retreat into trivial questions like 203 00:18:09,668 --> 00:18:14,020 Is this idea of predicting backwards is going to put astrologists out of business? 204 00:18:14,458 --> 00:18:17,044 Nothing will put astrologist out of business !! 205 00:18:17,896 --> 00:18:25,478 Well.. that is certainly the attitude of touching the lightness of this tremendous issues that we are discussing 206 00:18:25,897 --> 00:18:29,302 Infinity, black Holes and Imaginary time 207 00:18:29,799 --> 00:18:39,258 And at this stage... let's relax a little bit and have a bit of fun with mathematics at the most abstruse 208 00:18:39,643 --> 00:18:44,207 I'm going to ask Arthur Clarke here to do something doodling with his computer 209 00:18:44,604 --> 00:18:50,297 And with a fascinating exercise with complex numbers, which is called the Mandelbrot set 210 00:18:51,066 --> 00:18:55,035 Now, this is name is in honor of a French scientist working for IBM 211 00:18:55,394 --> 00:19:00,767 It's a mathematical equation which leads us towards the infinite 212 00:19:01,112 --> 00:19:06,922 In fact, it makes the mathematics of the universe visual and incredibly beautiful 213 00:19:09,203 --> 00:19:16,035 This is what we would see if we had eyes to see it when order meets chaos 214 00:19:18,769 --> 00:19:22,317 This is what is going on in the universe everyday 215 00:19:22,956 --> 00:19:27,675 And ordered universe is breaking down and becoming more disordered 216 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:37,107 This is the second law of therm dynamics in action. What Stephen Hawking calls Murphy's Law 217 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,841 Now Dr. Clarke will be using your computer back home in Sri-Lanka to 218 00:19:43,065 --> 00:19:50,072 to explore the Mandelbrot set at incredible high magnifications.. 219 00:19:50,372 --> 00:19:55,538 And Yes,... well this strange looking object is the Mandelbrot set 220 00:19:55,823 --> 00:20:02,715 which is actually extraordinary simply concept is to find behind the equation of just two terms 221 00:20:03,032 --> 00:20:09,328 Z2 + C, that is all that is to it, that is a simple equation. Z2 + C 222 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,805 You feed a number into it, then carry on over and over again 223 00:20:14,058 --> 00:20:18,839 to crank the number back and round around. And plot the results on screen. I'm not going to detail 224 00:20:19,057 --> 00:20:21,621 But this is the first appearance of the set. 225 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,747 And what it does is to divide all possible numbers into two categories 226 00:20:26,978 --> 00:20:32,589 It's a map or a boundarie or a fence, if you like, diving one plus other number for another 227 00:20:33,195 --> 00:20:38,574 And you can tell your computer to go into any spot here and say 228 00:20:38,993 --> 00:20:44,335 recompute that area to a higher degree of precision and then blow it up on the screen 229 00:20:44,685 --> 00:20:49,819 So you can use a computer as a microscope and you can continue that process forever 230 00:20:50,435 --> 00:20:53,686 Some of the images are incredibly beautiful, they are going to have a greater impact 231 00:20:53,967 --> 00:20:56,851 on artists of design in the next decade or so 232 00:20:57,584 --> 00:21:02,248 I found what look like black holes and I’d like to show to you 233 00:21:02,657 --> 00:21:07,665 What I’m going to do now is to send to it, is to zoom into it, equation of magnification 234 00:21:08,193 --> 00:21:13,634 Manifold, and if I press the right button, it should happen now 235 00:21:14,384 --> 00:21:18,557 The computer will now review this image, and I think you will agree 236 00:21:18,927 --> 00:21:22,383 when it comes up, it's a very impressive black hole 237 00:21:22,653 --> 00:21:27,713 And it will be more so and I start it.....into action 238 00:21:28,615 --> 00:21:31,166 Oh yes! It is magnificent, isn't it? 239 00:21:31,429 --> 00:21:32,961 Oh you hate you seen nothing yet 240 00:21:34,609 --> 00:21:39,861 I should explain that this magnification, remember the original picture, which we took that was the same area 241 00:21:40,296 --> 00:21:42,876 This time I’ve magnified it more than a thousand times 242 00:21:43,092 --> 00:21:47,907 So the picture it was first is now 500 feet across. Now let's see if this works 243 00:21:49,358 --> 00:21:50,434 Now isn't that lovely? 244 00:21:53,155 --> 00:21:55,622 So now there is matter streaming into this black hole 245 00:21:56,188 --> 00:22:02,221 Well, now... when I found this black hole I started to exploring the neighborhood 246 00:22:02,813 --> 00:22:06,526 And.. I very quickly found an HONOR 247 00:22:07,497 --> 00:22:10,063 That's Lovely 248 00:22:10,293 --> 00:22:15,511 Now, this is a second black hole, this look like the earlier one, but this is one a far greater magnification 249 00:22:15,546 --> 00:22:22,045 the original Mandelbrot set now i think is about 10 million miles wide 250 00:22:22,286 --> 00:22:23,535 This is enormiusly bigger 251 00:22:24,219 --> 00:22:27,201 The first one you saw had essentially the same kind of pattern. 252 00:22:27,798 --> 00:22:37,015 This is black hole nº 3.. and this one.. took me 22 hours of computing in the day before I left Sri-Lanka 253 00:22:38,027 --> 00:22:39,731 I let the computer running all night 254 00:22:40,182 --> 00:22:45,197 And I’m ought to put this one because on this scale at the original middle picture you saw 255 00:22:45,673 --> 00:22:52,181 This has the width of the orbit of Mars, so you understand that no human being has ever seen that 256 00:22:52,570 --> 00:22:55,878 With this pattern before. Simply because of probabilities 257 00:22:55,913 --> 00:22:59,263 And you can explore the Mandelbrot set by growing up missing pieces of it 258 00:23:00,122 --> 00:23:04,032 And you are pretty sure that no one has ever seen that.. I'm the first person to see it 259 00:23:04,455 --> 00:23:07,097 And which time you will be drawn toward 260 00:23:07,132 --> 00:23:08,047 You are sucked into it 261 00:23:08,617 --> 00:23:09,517 Mathematical infinity 262 00:23:09,552 --> 00:23:14,502 Into smaller.. Yes.. this is real mathematical infinity.. this goes on forever and ever 263 00:23:14,972 --> 00:23:19,346 Limited only by the capacity of the machine and the speed which it can do the calculations 264 00:23:19,776 --> 00:23:22,844 I'm doing calculations here.. you may not and see that.. 265 00:23:23,083 --> 00:23:25,899 this ENORMUS long number.. there are 22 digits of numbers or so.. 266 00:23:26,156 --> 00:23:28,582 and the Machine is multiplying those to get a 100 times a second 267 00:23:28,617 --> 00:23:33,170 Now, the thing that fascinates me about this is that this is the infinity detailed 268 00:23:33,459 --> 00:23:37,355 You go on forever and ever.. I'd like to ask to Stephen this question 269 00:23:38,012 --> 00:23:41,458 Is the real universe also in infinity detailed? 270 00:23:41,493 --> 00:23:44,073 I mean we know we have MOLECULS, atom, electrons, protons 271 00:23:44,330 --> 00:23:47,724 sub-atomic level to the quarks so far 272 00:23:48,233 --> 00:23:53,153 But does it continue forever and ever? Or is there a limit? Is there a base for the real universe? 273 00:23:55,389 --> 00:23:56,981 Professor Hawking? 274 00:24:01,496 --> 00:24:06,952 We will discover new structures when look at the universe in smaller and smaller scales 275 00:24:08,923 --> 00:24:13,668 But in the case of the universe there seems to be a limiting scale 276 00:24:16,066 --> 00:24:22,199 It is called the "Planck Length" and it is about a million billion billion times smaller than an inch 277 00:24:24,860 --> 00:24:30,045 This means that there is a limit to how complex the universe can be 278 00:24:32,099 --> 00:24:37,549 It also means that the universe could be described by a theory that is very simple 279 00:24:37,956 --> 00:24:40,384 at least on scales of the "Planck Length" 280 00:24:41,918 --> 00:24:45,021 I just hope that we are smart enough to find it 281 00:24:48,108 --> 00:24:50,730 Are we smart enough to find it, Arthur? 282 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:59,020 Well,... I wonder.. because after all we are simple primitive organisms and the universe is very old 283 00:25:00,505 --> 00:25:03,743 And I yes don't know.. I'd like to think so.. but then there is a feeling.. 284 00:25:04,344 --> 00:25:08,472 When we found it, then what? where do we go from here? 285 00:25:12,058 --> 00:25:16,158 I'd like to turn our attention back on to our profº Stephen Hawking 286 00:25:16,831 --> 00:25:21,286 Do you think that we could ever hope to use the old science fiction trick of 287 00:25:21,321 --> 00:25:25,741 Diving into a black hole and then traveling to another part of the cosmos? 288 00:25:31,658 --> 00:25:36,146 Some recent work indicates that particles that falls into a black hole 289 00:25:36,404 --> 00:25:40,807 Can come out again out from another black hole somewhere else in the universe 290 00:25:42,557 --> 00:25:46,020 At first sight that seems to the ideal method of space travel 291 00:25:48,810 --> 00:25:51,808 Just find a black hole and jump in it 292 00:25:53,305 --> 00:25:54,590 But there are Snags. 293 00:25:56,841 --> 00:26:01,898 First that doesn't seem to be anyway to choose where you will come out 294 00:26:04,772 --> 00:26:10,216 Worst than that your history and real time you will come to a sticky end 295 00:26:10,496 --> 00:26:14,775 As you are torn apart by the gravitational fields inside the black hole 296 00:26:16,233 --> 00:26:22,338 Your history and imaginary time will continue out of the other black hole 297 00:26:24,418 --> 00:26:29,416 But that might not be much consolation to someone being made into spaghetti 298 00:26:32,105 --> 00:26:36,762 That will be like traveling on some Air Lines I could name 299 00:26:38,660 --> 00:26:43,527 So how do you see the that role of science fiction 300 00:26:43,764 --> 00:26:48,627 Is it purely escapism or do you see as having a very real purpose 301 00:26:49,155 --> 00:26:53,609 In broughting our pattern of thinking, opening our minds to the kind of 302 00:26:53,842 --> 00:26:56,551 vast concepts in which we are discussing today? 303 00:26:56,919 --> 00:27:00,139 First of all, there is no real objection to escapism in the right places 304 00:27:01,468 --> 00:27:07,563 In fact, CS News once remarked me, the only people who don't really like, who object to escapism are jailers 305 00:27:08,682 --> 00:27:14,246 We all want to escape occasionally but Science Fiction is often very far from escapism 306 00:27:14,766 --> 00:27:18,996 In fact, you might say the Science fiction is escapism as escape into reality 307 00:27:19,676 --> 00:27:25,863 Is a fiction which does concern yourself with really issues 308 00:27:26,611 --> 00:27:28,874 The origin, the man, our future 309 00:27:29,218 --> 00:27:33,060 In fact, I don't think... i can not think in any form of fiction which is more 310 00:27:33,095 --> 00:27:35,246 More concern with really issues, reality 311 00:27:35,964 --> 00:27:38,528 Well, what do you have to say to that Professor Hawking? 312 00:27:51,479 --> 00:27:57,295 I don't believe in stories at flying Soucers and another unidentified flying objects 313 00:27:58,839 --> 00:28:01,211 If time travel were possible 314 00:28:01,712 --> 00:28:05,366 we should have already been visited by people from the future 315 00:28:07,102 --> 00:28:11,743 I think if we were been visited by people from another time or another planet 316 00:28:12,211 --> 00:28:16,993 It would be much more obvious and probably very unpleasant 317 00:28:18,549 --> 00:28:24,695 I don't want to make contact with another civilization except at a safe distance 318 00:28:26,118 --> 00:28:31,726 It might be like north Americans Indians making contact with a white men 319 00:28:33,226 --> 00:28:36,213 I badly wish they had never sold Manhattan 320 00:28:39,271 --> 00:28:45,943 Carl, you are the world's leading expert in the search for extra terrestrial intelligence 321 00:28:46,205 --> 00:28:49,033 Now Profº hawking doesn't want to make contact with them, 322 00:28:50,037 --> 00:28:51,978 Why do you want to make contact with them? 323 00:28:52,479 --> 00:28:55,268 Well.. first of all I would say we have little choice in the matter 324 00:28:56,677 --> 00:29:03,228 We have already announced, rather i should say Magnus 325 00:29:03,673 --> 00:29:05,655 Your followers have already announced 326 00:29:06,675 --> 00:29:10,377 The fact that there is a low level technical civilization at this part of the galaxy 327 00:29:11,053 --> 00:29:14,176 Because television signals get out at the speed of light 328 00:29:14,913 --> 00:29:22,058 And since any other civilization who detects those signals is unlikely to be at or 329 00:29:22,540 --> 00:29:25,290 before our state of technological events 330 00:29:26,016 --> 00:29:28,743 since we just invented radio technology so to say 331 00:29:29,363 --> 00:29:32,442 They are much more likely to be in our technological future 332 00:29:33,047 --> 00:29:38,752 And the question is to whether their intentions are BEGNY or 333 00:29:39,425 --> 00:29:41,411 otherwise is of course adventuristic 334 00:29:41,740 --> 00:29:44,663 But we have nothing to say about the matter 335 00:29:45,382 --> 00:29:50,256 So therefore i think we might as well hope it's beny if they are out there 336 00:29:50,457 --> 00:29:53,346 From my point of view, the search for extra terrestrial life 337 00:29:53,753 --> 00:29:56,053 And in special the search for extra terrestrial intelligence 338 00:29:56,581 --> 00:30:02,311 is one of the key Philosophical, scientific, and human questions that have been posed 339 00:30:02,346 --> 00:30:07,114 But we are at the very beginning of searching, surely it is important for us to know the answer 340 00:30:07,473 --> 00:30:09,687 One thing that interests me a great deal is the way 341 00:30:09,722 --> 00:30:15,687 which public perception of beings from outer space have had changed over the years 342 00:30:15,917 --> 00:30:18,651 They used to be the badies.. But Now.. 343 00:30:18,965 --> 00:30:25,502 there’s is an optimistic feeling that any extra terrestrial life is if not beny 344 00:30:25,537 --> 00:30:29,783 is at least not as hostile and aggressive as the one we used to fear 345 00:30:30,032 --> 00:30:32,064 Is this the drifting of your writings as well Arthur? 346 00:30:32,315 --> 00:30:37,159 Yes, I'm an optimistic and I believe that any hostile civilization 347 00:30:37,489 --> 00:30:42,198 will rapidly self destruct as we may see it on ourselves 348 00:30:42,584 --> 00:30:47,376 So if we do have contact physical contact with aliens i think it will be beny 349 00:30:47,835 --> 00:30:49,240 My frivolous mind is much taken... 350 00:30:49,275 --> 00:30:53,939 If Intelligent being are reasonbly near why they have not visited us? 351 00:30:55,386 --> 00:30:58,097 Well, that is a very good question, let's try to run across to Arthur Clarke? 352 00:30:58,734 --> 00:31:00,781 There are literally dozens of answers to this 353 00:31:01,469 --> 00:31:07,907 that may have come in a remote past, they may be visiting us every ten thousands of years 354 00:31:07,942 --> 00:31:10,719 I mean the universe is a huge large place and even if there were fleets 355 00:31:11,134 --> 00:31:13,512 of survey ships they are all going on the cosmos 356 00:31:13,797 --> 00:31:19,313 we shouldn't expect visitors less than an ice age every thousand years or so 357 00:31:19,870 --> 00:31:24,562 They may know about us, and they may have put a quarantine in our planet 358 00:31:24,984 --> 00:31:26,503 For pretty good reasons 359 00:31:27,481 --> 00:31:30,563 They may have lost the interest in us, they may be so much higher 360 00:31:31,465 --> 00:31:34,950 that we must be just a JHHH an inconvenience if you like 361 00:31:35,633 --> 00:31:40,904 You expect it endlessly.. I think we should just wait and try to get more evidence 362 00:31:41,527 --> 00:31:44,981 Maybe there are spaces probes saying there is no intelligent life on earth 363 00:31:46,032 --> 00:31:49,296 They maybe have achieved our television programs and decide that 364 00:31:49,544 --> 00:31:50,369 that is the case 365 00:31:51,856 --> 00:31:56,247 May I attempt a different answer to Stephen's question? 366 00:31:56,484 --> 00:31:57,326 Please do Carl Sagan 367 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:06,937 The first large scale commercial broadcasting on the earth was in the late 1940's 368 00:32:07,223 --> 00:32:11,292 So that was forty years ago.. So you must imagine 369 00:32:12,138 --> 00:32:17,720 A spherical wave expanding out from the earth at the velocity of light 370 00:32:18,386 --> 00:32:24,378 Which contain all the JURY of programs of late 1940's 371 00:32:25,013 --> 00:32:28,907 Since then, that expanding spherical wave containing 372 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:35,201 The news of a development civilization on earth has travel some forty light years 373 00:32:35,853 --> 00:32:39,074 Suppose that there are no civilizations closer than forty light years 374 00:32:39,823 --> 00:32:44,118 Perhaps they aren't here because they don't know we are about just yet 375 00:32:44,591 --> 00:32:47,099 But in time the message gets to them 376 00:32:47,661 --> 00:32:51,659 And perhaps they'll send a little expedition to look us over 377 00:32:51,896 --> 00:32:56,389 I liked when I read that when spaces probes went out 378 00:32:56,742 --> 00:33:02,775 First of all you put the figure of a man and a woman on the outside 379 00:33:03,225 --> 00:33:06,020 So any alien life would recognize what we look like 380 00:33:06,335 --> 00:33:10,306 And in the legend probe I think you put a LP of earth sounds 381 00:33:10,885 --> 00:33:15,835 with instructions and hand signals on how to work the LP 382 00:33:16,166 --> 00:33:22,606 How do you think anybody would have reacted if in fact, alien intelligence had heard this LP? 383 00:33:23,625 --> 00:33:25,947 My guess is that will be something like 384 00:33:26,874 --> 00:33:33,262 "Oh look, another artifact from some extremely primitive civilization, which one is this?" 385 00:33:34,276 --> 00:33:35,975 But then some degree of thanks.. 386 00:33:36,271 --> 00:33:41,964 we were thoughtful enough to send a message into the far future which it could in no way benefit us 387 00:33:42,897 --> 00:33:47,504 Certainly a selfless act. And perhaps it will be recognize 388 00:33:47,771 --> 00:33:53,743 As a hopeful and optimistic gesture by an emerge civilization 389 00:33:54,270 --> 00:33:58,519 just setting foot into the great galactic wilderness 390 00:33:59,169 --> 00:34:00,386 Yes Arthur? 391 00:34:00,635 --> 00:34:02,397 I know what is gonna happen to your voyager Carl 392 00:34:02,895 --> 00:34:07,159 That will be overtaken one day by terrestrial spaceship and brought back to Smithsonian (NASA) 393 00:34:08,085 --> 00:34:14,849 It is certainly technologically possible, but i hope they let it go on its original mission 394 00:34:15,392 --> 00:34:20,048 Now, it very nearly 20 years ago since man landed on the moon 395 00:34:20,443 --> 00:34:24,687 Do you think that we've basically started trying to get men any further? 396 00:34:25,111 --> 00:34:31,102 Is there any chance of another Neil Armstrong will set foot on Mars in our lifetime? 397 00:34:31,791 --> 00:34:37,812 United States and Soviet Union have managed to BOOBLE TRAP the planet with about 60,000 nuclear weapons 398 00:34:38,078 --> 00:34:40,870 With a little help from Britain friends and China and Israel 399 00:34:42,434 --> 00:34:48,142 It's a tiny fraction of those weapons is enough to destroy the participating nations 400 00:34:48,618 --> 00:34:56,579 And certainly the global civilization and possibly the human species just maybe 401 00:34:57,062 --> 00:35:03,450 It is time for the United States and Soviet Union to demonstrate that they can undo 402 00:35:03,713 --> 00:35:04,899 This arsenal 403 00:35:05,354 --> 00:35:09,106 That they can demonstrate their ability to work together on high technology 404 00:35:09,731 --> 00:35:16,719 For peaceful hopeful purposes that carries us to a beny 21th century 405 00:35:17,398 --> 00:35:25,339 That's why I support the idea of joint US-Soviet cooperation and the exploration of Mars 406 00:35:25,976 --> 00:35:32,869 Leading up to an International Men and by the way Women mission to the planet 407 00:35:33,620 --> 00:35:40,366 Americans and Soviets as representatives of the human species other nations i presume will also be involved 408 00:35:41,090 --> 00:35:48,963 Then a glorious, whatever will be few month period, in which Mars I have a global of it next to me 409 00:35:49,353 --> 00:35:56,849 In which Mars will be explored. There are hundreds, for example, hundreds of ancient river valleys on Mars 410 00:35:57,115 --> 00:36:03,775 Mars is today bondry. It was once much warmer much wetter, much denser atmosphere, much more earthlike 411 00:36:04,283 --> 00:36:05,999 What were does conditions like? 412 00:36:06,708 --> 00:36:12,712 Why did an earthlike planet get converted into this deep Ice Age condition? 413 00:36:13,033 --> 00:36:15,599 That Mars has today? 414 00:36:15,939 --> 00:36:21,879 Is there life there? Could there once be life? Are there phossils forms? 415 00:36:22,271 --> 00:36:27,876 There are extraordinary enigmatic geological features on the planet. What is their nature? 416 00:36:28,445 --> 00:36:31,719 There a huge amount of exploration to do 417 00:36:32,100 --> 00:36:39,099 And all of it, every step that I’ve described, could be before the television cameras over the world 418 00:36:39,809 --> 00:36:42,499 And we could all participate in such exploration 419 00:36:43,158 --> 00:36:47,802 Is another danger that the human bacterys that we take with us 420 00:36:48,376 --> 00:36:56,567 Will pollute and destroy something enourmsly precious out there simply because we are so inquisitive about it 421 00:36:56,905 --> 00:36:57,519 Arthur? 422 00:36:57,806 --> 00:37:02,693 Well, if you ask the question "Should the human beings go to other planets?" 423 00:37:03,083 --> 00:37:08,347 I think the answer to that is: We could had stayed the Europe and could explore American by robots 424 00:37:09,097 --> 00:37:13,330 It might have been, it would certainly save a lot of human lives, but of course we didn't we went there and lived 425 00:37:14,658 --> 00:37:21,277 In this new continent. Now again Mars like none of the planets of the solar system is anything like as beny as 426 00:37:21,312 --> 00:37:23,257 The United States and the other parts of this planet 427 00:37:23,694 --> 00:37:25,751 But one day people will argue to call them home 428 00:37:26,449 --> 00:37:29,426 There will me Martians one day and they will be arguing eventually 429 00:37:30,029 --> 00:37:33,258 And they will think as the earth poison as a horrible place for themselves to live 430 00:37:33,780 --> 00:37:37,656 Now as to whether will we pollute this environment: Yes there are some risks to it 431 00:37:38,125 --> 00:37:42,709 Of course colonization always involves a destruction of what was there first 432 00:37:43,073 --> 00:37:47,800 I'm quite sure in the next century, In fact already started there is a conference on the pollution of space 433 00:37:48,304 --> 00:37:53,508 In the United States in a very near future this is already a serious problem in the near earth space 434 00:37:54,147 --> 00:37:59,822 But you have to control you have to cut down forests on this earth to make new cities 435 00:38:00,174 --> 00:38:03,894 On the moon I'm afraid one day we may have to polish much of the moon with vacuum 436 00:38:04,346 --> 00:38:06,351 Vacuum on Mars, we may have to change the atmosphere 437 00:38:06,955 --> 00:38:10,252 But i do hope we'll leave most of the universe in a crystal condition 438 00:38:10,602 --> 00:38:12,879 But our heirs are gonna have to change ourselves in Mars, I mean we could evolve differently 439 00:38:14,810 --> 00:38:17,756 Mars will change us. In fact this is part of the progress 440 00:38:17,791 --> 00:38:21,668 By going into a new environment, by occupying new biological niches 441 00:38:21,951 --> 00:38:26,324 That's the way we progress and discover the universe and explore it.. 442 00:38:27,043 --> 00:38:28,919 and perhaps fulfill our destiny 443 00:38:29,887 --> 00:38:34,734 Do you think that other planets might have the same kind of system which there will be a morality 444 00:38:35,038 --> 00:38:40,352 Which there would be people taking moral attitudes, which may not necessary be the same as ours of course? 445 00:38:40,744 --> 00:38:46,915 All societies must have some moral structure, I mean otherwise we just can't have a society 446 00:38:47,251 --> 00:38:50,071 We must understand rules and the way to behave to our neighbors 447 00:38:50,602 --> 00:38:54,853 And even if the society consist of machines, there must be a machine land 448 00:38:55,135 --> 00:38:58,800 Which they can agree to react together 449 00:38:59,149 --> 00:39:02,415 So morality in some way is essential to the universe 450 00:39:02,975 --> 00:39:06,590 Now, Professor Hawking in the very last paragraph of your book 451 00:39:06,993 --> 00:39:11,568 You said that if we discover a compete theory of the universe 452 00:39:12,191 --> 00:39:20,410 Then it should be in time understandable and BROUGHT principle to everyone and not just to scientists 453 00:39:20,911 --> 00:39:28,518 And when that happens, all of us will be able to start discussing "WHY" rather than the "HOW" and I quote: 454 00:39:29,007 --> 00:39:37,299 "If we find the answer to that, it should be the ultimate trying for human reason for then we will know the mind of god" 455 00:39:37,972 --> 00:39:42,963 Do you think that God can intervene in the universe as he wants? 456 00:39:43,475 --> 00:39:46,101 Or is god too bound by the laws of science? 457 00:39:50,839 --> 00:39:55,618 The question whether god is bound by the laws of Science is a bit like the question 458 00:39:56,277 --> 00:40:01,102 Can God make a stone that is so heavy that he can not lift it? 459 00:40:02,473 --> 00:40:11,249 I don't think that is very useful to speculate on what god might, or might not be able to do 460 00:40:12,876 --> 00:40:18,390 Rather, we should examine what he actually does with the universe we live in 461 00:40:21,223 --> 00:40:26,585 All of our observations suggests that he operates accordingly to well defined laws 462 00:40:28,817 --> 00:40:31,474 These laws may have been ordained by god 463 00:40:31,881 --> 00:40:35,689 But it seems that he does not intervene in the universe to break the laws 464 00:40:36,253 --> 00:40:39,535 At least not once when he set a universe going 465 00:40:43,286 --> 00:40:50,629 However until recently, it was thought that the laws would necessarily breakdown at the beginning of the universe 466 00:40:53,928 --> 00:40:59,596 That would had meant, that God would have had a complete freedom to choose how the universe began 467 00:41:02,972 --> 00:41:10,673 In the last few years, however we have realized that the laws of science may hold at the beginning of time 468 00:41:12,149 --> 00:41:14,601 In that case would have had no freedom 469 00:41:15,971 --> 00:41:19,877 The way the universe began would be determined by the laws of science 470 00:41:20,969 --> 00:41:22,400 Well, thank you very much. 471 00:41:22,690 --> 00:41:28,104 Carl Sagan, in your introduction to the book you commented on this 472 00:41:28,334 --> 00:41:33,103 You said this is also a book about God or perhaps about the absence of God 473 00:41:33,438 --> 00:41:36,781 Because Hawking left nothing for the creator to do 474 00:41:37,530 --> 00:41:40,553 Now, God of course means many things to many people. 475 00:41:40,929 --> 00:41:46,148 What sort of God basically are we talking about when we talk about reading the mind of God? 476 00:41:47,953 --> 00:41:50,154 Well... I think that's an excellent question 477 00:41:50,654 --> 00:41:55,208 And I'd be the most interested to hear Stephen Hawking Answer 478 00:41:55,614 --> 00:42:00,639 But just to try to illuminate the range of possibilities consider two alternatives 479 00:42:01,310 --> 00:42:04,970 One is the notion popular in the West 480 00:42:05,874 --> 00:42:13,780 that God is sort of outsized, elderly white male with a long white beard seating in a throne in the sky 481 00:42:14,123 --> 00:42:16,607 And telling the fault of every being 482 00:42:17,519 --> 00:42:24,836 Contrast that with the idea of God in the mind of, let's say, Spinoza or Einstein 483 00:42:25,436 --> 00:42:30,595 Which was at least very closely with the sum of the total laws of the universe 484 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:37,551 Now it would be madness to deny that there are well defined physical laws in the universe 485 00:42:38,153 --> 00:42:42,777 And if is that what you mean by god there is no question that God exists 486 00:42:43,147 --> 00:42:50,437 But it's a very remote God what French called "roíz franiant", a do nothing King 487 00:42:51,330 --> 00:42:55,469 On the other hand the former model of the one who intervenes daily 488 00:42:56,003 --> 00:43:01,094 For that there seems to be as Dr. Hawking said "No evidence" 489 00:43:01,415 --> 00:43:06,946 I think that's wise my own personal feeling to be a little humble 490 00:43:07,442 --> 00:43:13,563 On such matters, we must recognize that we are dealing with, by definition 491 00:43:13,598 --> 00:43:19,684 "The most difficult things to know the furtherest from the human experience" 492 00:43:20,137 --> 00:43:26,995 And perhaps we will be able to penetrate a little way into these mysteries 493 00:43:27,433 --> 00:43:30,229 I think Prof Hawking would like to come in here 494 00:43:32,614 --> 00:43:35,615 I use God in the same sense that Einstein did 495 00:43:36,428 --> 00:43:42,270 It is our will the real reason why the is universe is as it is and why the universe exists at all 496 00:43:45,089 --> 00:43:53,180 Can i ask Arthur Clarke what he meant when you said in a interview 497 00:43:53,558 --> 00:43:56,836 I don't believe in God but I’m extremely interested in it 498 00:43:57,275 --> 00:43:59,714 Well i guess I haven't placed my bet yet 499 00:44:00,267 --> 00:44:04,568 You know when Stephen remarks and Carl remarks Reminds me that this was said 500 00:44:05,213 --> 00:44:13,274 200 years ago when Napoleon, I think he was talking with Laplace who publishes theories of the universe 501 00:44:13,714 --> 00:44:20,169 An Napoleon said "God isn't in it?" and Laplace replied "Sr. I have no need for that hypothesis" 502 00:44:21,164 --> 00:44:28,236 Do you think that the church is In fact beginning to recognize that it may have to lose its priority 503 00:44:28,711 --> 00:44:36,121 its anonnance as it sounds arbitrary of these matters and that Science will be allow to come in as an equal partner 504 00:44:36,715 --> 00:44:41,266 Well, the church, the Roman Catholic Church is becoming very much more neighboor 505 00:44:41,649 --> 00:44:47,545 I had a pleasure of give a talking in the Vatican myself when the Academy of Sciences ask me to 506 00:44:47,984 --> 00:44:52,491 and I met the Pope and of course I quoted Galileo and so things are moving 507 00:44:53,305 --> 00:44:57,795 In fact are they moving Backwards as well as Forwards Carl Sagan? 508 00:44:58,103 --> 00:45:04,714 Because I understand that in the earliest days of civilization then the priests were in fact what we call the scientists 509 00:45:05,055 --> 00:45:08,918 The ones who could start astronomy and who could predict eclipses and things 510 00:45:09,224 --> 00:45:15,940 You see the scientists coming back into to a second position like this or Am i overstating it? 511 00:45:17,752 --> 00:45:20,880 Well, I hope you are overstating it 512 00:45:22,237 --> 00:45:27,941 I think the essence of the scientific method is the willingness to admit you are wrong 513 00:45:28,253 --> 00:45:35,097 The willingness to abandon ideas that don't work and the essence of religion is not to change anything 514 00:45:35,689 --> 00:45:39,812 Suppose your truth are handed down by some revered figure 515 00:45:40,413 --> 00:45:45,584 And no one is suppose to make any progress beyond that because all the truth was thought to be in hand 516 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,066 And may i talk about setting the agenda for the future? 517 00:45:49,069 --> 00:46:01,127 My sense is that scientific way of thinking is questioning some delicate mix of creative encouragement of new ideas 518 00:46:01,675 --> 00:46:05,365 In the most rigorous and skeptical Scrutiny of new and old ideas 519 00:46:05,851 --> 00:46:12,224 I think that is the path to the future not just for science but for all human institutions 520 00:46:12,726 --> 00:46:16,319 We have to be willing to challenge because we are in desperate need of change 521 00:46:16,681 --> 00:46:18,377 I have the same question to you Arthur Clarke 522 00:46:18,902 --> 00:46:23,523 Politics or Priests are setting the agenda or scientists? 523 00:46:23,978 --> 00:46:27,188 I'm very fan of Pandit Nehru on this, he once said that 524 00:46:27,538 --> 00:46:34,350 Politics and Religious are obsolete. The time has come for science and spirituality! 525 00:46:35,365 --> 00:46:39,349 I hear from the clicking that Prof. hawking would like to come in 526 00:46:42,568 --> 00:46:46,630 I don't think that physics tells us how to behave to our neighbors 527 00:46:49,211 --> 00:46:53,348 The physics may determinate who our neighbors are and what planets they live in 528 00:46:53,928 --> 00:46:56,408 But you say that science should be skeptical and politics 529 00:46:56,651 --> 00:47:00,923 Don't you think that we should be skeptical about science too? I mean, can we trust you guys? 530 00:47:02,463 --> 00:47:10,315 I think you should certainly be skeptical, but my view is that there are no community of people on the planet 531 00:47:10,751 --> 00:47:15,580 More skeptical than scientists. It's our stocking trade, is the life blood of our subject 532 00:47:17,065 --> 00:47:21,613 Science is a self correct subject, not like Politics! 533 00:47:23,248 --> 00:47:25,173 Well politics is corrected by other forces 534 00:47:26,488 --> 00:47:35,203 Can I ask one question of you all?, is the question of creativity which fascinates me 535 00:47:35,551 --> 00:47:41,944 Here we have three Enourmsly creative people. Enourmsly creative inthelects 536 00:47:42,455 --> 00:47:45,225 How in fact does it operate? 537 00:47:45,607 --> 00:47:51,609 Do you, Arthur Clarke, do you should find a problem that you like to work on 538 00:47:52,002 --> 00:47:53,519 And then look for a solution to it? 539 00:47:54,077 --> 00:47:59,390 I'm not sure what might make the new creation, and I don't think i really want to know 540 00:47:59,641 --> 00:48:03,952 And I’m afraid to find, if I discover, that i will not act naturally 541 00:48:04,256 --> 00:48:06,905 Just found distract 542 00:48:07,437 --> 00:48:09,595 Or a golf man when de think about his swing? Yes.. 543 00:48:10,013 --> 00:48:10,893 So you don't think about that 544 00:48:11,389 --> 00:48:14,262 Carl Sagan, there is a seriou sight to this? 545 00:48:14,647 --> 00:48:18,594 Well..this issue Where creativity comes from... 546 00:48:19,607 --> 00:48:21,269 I share your fascination with it 547 00:48:22,204 --> 00:48:24,498 I don't think we understand very much about it 548 00:48:25,441 --> 00:48:31,704 My practice is to respect my unconscious mind 549 00:48:32,002 --> 00:48:36,718 Who often is much wiser than the conscious part of me 550 00:48:37,356 --> 00:48:39,450 And pay attention to what is says 551 00:48:40,016 --> 00:48:47,840 In fact, I think this is connected to that delicate attention at the heart of Scientific Method i talked about before 552 00:48:48,606 --> 00:48:52,608 The unconscious mind proposes a range of possibilities 553 00:48:52,985 --> 00:49:00,404 And the conscious mind disposes and it compares those ideas with the real world 554 00:49:00,763 --> 00:49:04,751 Checks for internal inconsistencies and so on 555 00:49:05,296 --> 00:49:13,294 I think the creative process is a partnership between a conscious and unconscious parts of our minds 556 00:49:13,567 --> 00:49:15,470 At least that is how it seems to me 557 00:49:17,317 --> 00:49:18,583 I'd like to leave the last word on creativity In fact with Prof Hawking 558 00:49:26,865 --> 00:49:29,254 Just whenever you are ready 559 00:49:33,706 --> 00:49:39,689 I'm just curious I want to find out how the things works I follow my nose 560 00:49:40,628 --> 00:49:44,973 One thing leads to another and I don't know what I will find next 561 00:49:46,581 --> 00:49:52,720 Now i think i would like to retreat a bit into poetry myself because it's nearly a 150 years ago 562 00:49:52,973 --> 00:49:55,688 Since Mathew Arnold wrote his explandid poem "The Future" 563 00:49:56,343 --> 00:50:00,937 What was before us we know not and we know not what will succed 564 00:50:01,619 --> 00:50:06,677 But perhaps if Prof Hawking magnificent vision and curiosity is realized 565 00:50:07,021 --> 00:50:12,111 we will have proved Mathew Arnold is wrong before the 150 years are up 566 00:50:12,628 --> 00:50:17,504 Gentlemen to all of you, to Prof Stephen Hawking, to Dr. Arthur C. Clarke 567 00:50:18,084 --> 00:50:22,457 To you Carl Sagan in America, a enourmous thanks to all three of you 568 00:50:22,842 --> 00:50:25,035 And to all of you watching Good Night